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Interview with Mike Evans |
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We spoke with Mike Evans one of Australia's
top Private Investigators. Mike is an experienced licensed Private
Investigator who does not have police experience or a police
training background. Mike started his investigation career from
the ground up learning from hands on experience and his own
mistakes and in turn becoming one of Australia's most knowledgeable
and experienced Investigators.
He works in the lucrative field of the civil investigation industry,
completing investigations for Insurers and legal representatives.
Mike has personally completed over 700 investigations and educated
over 300 working investigators. He has established a network
of Investigation Training Professionals throughout Australia,
and can assist and advise you to make the right decision about
your future career, based on your work history and previous
education. In this interview he answers the questions most often
put to me by people wishing to enter the industry.
So Mike, I suppose the first most common questions are,
1. Is there any work for me?
Yes Investigation work requires a wide range of skills and personalities.
If you do your course and are deemed competent, follow your
training and increase your skills at every opportunity there
will always be work. But you must be competitive, and consistent
in order to get your first investigation.
2. I want to work as an Investigator and have completed
the requisite Certification III course and got my license. Is
it worth me doing the Certificate IV course or is on the job
training enough?
What is required currently, among the employers of Investigation
Professionals is the highest level Nationally Recognised Qualification
available. In our case it is Certificate IV in Investigative
Services. It was recently stated in the Queensland Workcover
Tenders (Surveillance and Factual), Comcare Tender and Centrelink
Tender that the level IV qualification is required. This is
just the tip of the iceberg.
In my 4 years training experience I have not had a Certificate
IV student who has not gained continuous employment, from that
qualification. I am approached by people with University degrees
on a weekly basis, about how to get work as an investigator.
Those people have never had investigation work.
Certificate IV is designed to ensure your success as a multi-skilled
investigator, in the workplace, and that's what employers and
large Insurance organisations are currently demanding of panel
members.
3. I don't have any experience how am I going to get paid
work?
Excel in your study, and research every thing you can. What
do employers want? How can I match that to my experience? Practice
your interview technique? Practice your answers. Even employers
will assume a lot about your experience if you use the right
phrases and answers. Let them assume that then, make your first
5 investigations outstanding. I approach every investigation,
as if it is a game of sport. I am trained, I have practiced
and I want to win the best and fairest votes! The way I am going
to win that is to follow instructions and report accurately
all the facts.
4. How much can I earn?
In your first year expect about $30,000 to $35,000, after that
there should be no limit. An investigator with 5 years working
40 hours per week in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane should be
earning over $1,200 per week or they should not be in the industry.
5. Who else has had similar experience to me and got work?
I have seen students with no experience at 18 years of age gain
work, and earn over $40,000 in their first year. I have seen
students aged 58 commence and be happy to just supplement their
income and earn $20,000 per year.
Probably the most satisfying student I ever saw was a determined
student from a Non English speaking background, gain work as
private Investigator. She had lived here for 20 years, 7 in
an abusive marriage, later 4 years were spent in a Women’s
shelter, the rest were under a changed name to hide herself
and her two children from her crazed ex husband. The only work
she could ever get was house cleaning. She is now excelling
as an investigator.
So I have seen students with everything against them, language,
cultural difference, relationship, finances, lack of equipment,
lack of vehicle, overcome all of that and achieve their goal.
The average Australian has no excuse with their advantages.
6. What equipment do I need?
It varies, a digital camera is essential, a video camera is
essential for surveillance but you must use optical not digital
zoom. A laptop computer is required by some organisations, email
is essential and a PC will be essential. A reliable motor vehicle,
and micro tape recorder will also be needed.
7. What work will I be doing?
Expect to do Personal Injury surveillance work, it is good fun
and sometimes you gain evidence that will prove the persons
case just as much as you might do the opposite.
Factual investigations will involve interviewing witnesses,
scene inspections and general defence work. Today there are
actually Investigation firms that work on behalf of the Claimant
these are called Plaintiff Investigators.
On surveillance you can expect to work in a variety of settings,
including City, Urban, Bush and Rural Surveillance.
You wont need SAS survival skills, your commonsense course will
include how to do bush stuff.
The most common investigations are:
Motor Vehicle Accident
Stolen Motor Vehicle
Stolen Boats
Burglary ( break enter and steal)
Workers Compensation
Retail Fraud
Retail theft
Surveillance
Dependency
Public Liability - slip, trip and fall / dog bite etc etc
8. What happens afterwards when you go to court and show
video of the Claimant, and prove that it is fraud?
Well I am pleased you asked that, and it is the question every
student asks. Basically if you go to court or a hearing, go
in and give your evidence, are cross-examined then you are then
excused. (I must add that there is no weirder feeling on the
planet than when you are asked in court to state your name and
profession and you say “Mike Evans Private Investigator”
the whole court just looks at you and stares to see if you are
real, particularly the Claimant who you know intimately and
they don’t know you).
So the court makes its decision when you are not there, as you
have been excused. Claimant’s who have lost do not come
after you, that is a television fantasy. If they do this as
a career or learned the skill while serving time, they just
move onto the next one, they do not waste energy looking for
you.
9. Can I start my own relationship-cheat exposing business?
You can, a lot of people want to. My advice is not to do it.
I have advised people not to do it, they have gone ahead and
done it and found out themselves the hard way it is dangerous.
99% of the time you prove what the person giving you the instructions
wants to know. When you show them the film they cry. I get no
kick out of watching grown men and women cry over seeing a video
of their partner and their best friend. It’s cowboy stuff
with tragic twists and huge financial consequences. Stay away
from it.
10. Do I have to write reports?
Yes, the whole aim of your work is to produce an unbiased factual
report. You learn how to write over 5 different reports in a
good course. If there is only one report in your course (except
surveillance) then the course will be of no value to you.
11. I don't know all about the law, can I be successful
as an Investigator?
You only need a basic grasp of the law. Your instructions will
come from lawyers; they spent 6 years at law school, learning
what to do. In their opinion you do not need to know anything.
You will never be asked for an opinion, or a legal opinion.
You will never make a decision on a claim. Lawyers, medical
specialists, claims managers make the decisions you just gather
the information, on which a decision is made.
12. Mike how did you become an investigator?
I was a TAFE teacher, and I had 4 surveillance guys in my Occupational
Health and Safety class. I thought how creepy are these guys?
Anyway I went out with them a few times and I got hooked.
About the same time I met one of Sydney’s leading investigators
Ray King, he taught me about Workers Compensation and Public
Liability Investigation.
One day I answered a small classified advertisement in the paper.
The add would have cost $2.95, but what I didn’t know
was it was for one of Australia’s largest firms. I worked
for them for two years before I even met them face-to-face.
Since then I have studied, and built my own investigation agency
and training school.
13. How many investigations have you done?
Since 1995 I have done over 700 separate investigations, including
300 surveillance investigations totaling over 5,000 hours. I
have investigated from Cairns in the North to Port Arthur in
the south. I have been involved in investigations with claims
to the value up to $270,000 and down to $150.00.
These investigations have included over 12 fatal accidents,
horrific workplace injuries, public liability, motor vehicle
accident, stolen motor vehicle and minor property loss.
From all that like many people I speak to particularly hard
nosed ex police who investigated murders and crime, I have found
civil investigation rewarding as people try to help, witnesses
generally are trying to help, and my faith in humanity has been
renewed.
14. Who are the 3 top investigators you have met?
Since 1995 I have now met over 600 Australian Investigators.
Without a doubt the best all round investigator I have met is
Russell Ames from Maurice J Kerrigan and Associates in Melbourne.
His knowledge, skill and ability to impart what is required
in an investigation are unequalled in my experience. I believe
it is because he is so busy, that he has to make everything
concise and formidably to the point. All that and his ability
to maintain a sense of humour are qualities I would like to
have. Russell will read your final report and say, OK you need
this, this and that, and you left out this, but wow this part
is good. Russell always motivated you after.
Michael Hessenthaler from Sydney has done more the investigation
industry in this country that any person I have met. Michael
walks his talk, in that he is in an industry where there is
a lot of talk about improvements or things that need to be done,
but he does not talk it he does it, History will show Michael
Hessenthaler as a visionary leader in our industry. Michael
made investigation learning available to every one who wanted
it, at a time when the only alternative was irrelevant American
textbooks.
I know it sounds weird to name two from the same place but Maurice
Kerrigan, is in my top three because he has the highest standard
I have seen of investigation and reporting requirements. He
reads every report personally before it leaves his office. He
has trained others to do this as well, and their tenacity in
report checking, is frightening. If you try and get half an
investigation past this man, you will be going out and doing
it all again. I worked for Maurice for 5 years, and he told
me twice in that time I did a good job. I tell you what that
really meant something on those two occasions. Maurice delivers
a quality product for his clients, through his high standards,
but he also maintains a sense of humour.
15. Who makes a good investigator?
A person with an inquiring mind and an ability to make people
relax and tell them things will make a good factual investigator.
Even police do not behave like the stereotype you see on television,
That inquiring mind must be able to ask hard questions, and
use empathy when required.
16. What are the 5 worst mistakes a beginner can make?
1. Assume that all working investigators are better than them.
2. Assume that you can excel at this work without training and
practice.
3. Rush an investigation in order to be paid
4. Not ask for help or advice
5. Do no research or further learning after gaining a qualification
17 Are there many females in the business?
Ladies make up over 40% of working investigators. This is one
industry where the pay rate is the same, and the work is the
same. They conduct surveillance and factual investigations,
and the only age limit is the 18 years for licensing purposes
just like the guys.
They are attracted to the industry for a variety of reasons,
including:
• it is safer than nursing
• it is fun and adrenalin pumping work
• you can work the hours you want
• the income is good
• they are their own boss as a sub contractor
• no two days are the same
• it is a real buzz completing a complex investigation
18. Is it dangerous working as an investigator?
The work of a Private Investigator in Australia, is not really
dangerous. 98% of the work conducted by investigators is Insurance
Work. This is civil investigation; mostly it does not involve
criminal investigation. Civil entails gathering information
so a decision can be made to pay, reduce or deny a claim. The
Insurers use independent investigators to gather this information
because the chance of bias or accusations of it are reduced.
If a Claimant is upset during an interview, an investigator
will assess the threat and if it is considered to be going down
the path of physical violence the investigator can just leave.
There is no need to get into a physical fight, when the Claimant
calms down, their claim will proceed.
The only time I knew I was in danger, was on surveillance operation,
when I was lying in long grass in a Claimant’s backyard
filming her putting washing on the clothesline? Her husband
came home unexpectedly and was walking toward me. I knew his
history because it was in my instructions. When the Claimant
had her fall outside the nightclub, her husband attacked the
ambulance driver and attendant and when police were called he
attacked three police officers. So I knew he was violent. I
had options; I could get up and run, stand and fight, or just
lay there. I chose option 3 and they went inside had a cup of
tea, and he left. So there are moments, but you should never
get into any fight.
I have been caught and confronted by over 25 people doing surveillance
on them, but every one of them is probably still wondering to
this day if I was or if I wasn’t. Because I talked my
way out of it.
Any one stupid enough to get involved in relationship matter
surveillance is taking a big risk. Firstly people do not tell
the truth about what the circumstances are when giving instructions,
and secondly the stakes are high. Today houses are $250,000;
vehicles are $40,000 that’s a lot at stake just on video
evidence. Leave this work to the desperate, or highly professional,
it is too dangerous.
19. With all the fear in the world at the moment. Will investigators
get busier?
Yes as people become more affluent, and our economy becomes
more global they will have money to spend on a variety security
measures. This will include investigations on safe neighborhoods
for their children to live in while at University, background
checks on associates and proposed business relationships.
Police resources will be channeled into more diverse areas and
this will leave minor crime such as burglaries, stolen motor
vehicles, retail fraud, and motor vehicle accident as more the
domain of the civil investigator.
20. How long do the courses take to complete?
If a student is motivated and has a passion for investigation,
it takes about 15 weeks to become a competent investigator,
capable of earning $35,000 in year one and an unlimited annual
income after that. Every person is different, some can do it
quicker, some take longer, but 3.5 months at 20 hours a week
is the usual comfortable pace.
22. What do the Police think about Private Investigators?
I am amazed constantly by the amount of police who do not know
Private Investigators exist or have never dealt with one. Usually
their first introduction to a Private Investigator is when they
are called to a street where a person has been sitting in a
vehicle for the past 2 days. “On showing my license they
shake their head and say, I didn’t know you guys were
real!”
I must point out that all surveillance operatives should always
tell the police radio room that they are operating in an area
each day. Just provide the vehicle registrations, and your license
details and the police will not disturb you. There is no one
more upset than a country copper who has just driven 30 kms,
to check you out, only to find that you could have made him
aware that you were there. This is a wasted trip for them and
they get sick of it, because you and the tax office are doing
it, customs are doing it, social security are doing it, police
internal investigations are doing it, and all of them are wasting
his time.
Generally younger police have no idea of the work of the Private
Investigator. Older police with more experience usually know
more about us. For example I have whilst on surveillance alerted
police to over 12 incidents of people breaking into vehicles,
while I was in the same car park watching someone else. Police
are very grateful for that.
When we discover enough facts to prove fraud in cases of Stolen
Motor Vehicles, those cases are handed onto police, and police
always acknowledge this in writing, congratulating the civil
investigator on their work.
Other times police will encounter Private Investigators are
for Motor Vehicle accident and arson cases, plus serious work
related injuries or fatal work accidents. Police become involved
in these because they may have been deliberate. I have always
had a good relationship, with police in my work, and I am not
aware of anyone who has not.
Thanks Mike. I appreciate your time and I hope that some
of the answers you have provided will assist our readers in
determining whether they want to get in to the industry or not.
ed.
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